Infinite Scale - A podcast about Video Games
Listen to William Chandler, Chris Crossley, and Christopher Merced discuss the games they're playing, the news, and even (TOPIC).
Infinite Scale - A podcast about Video Games
Infinite Scale Podcast #66 - *Sniffs Loudly*
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We're back! Let's talk about Atomfall, the weird Nintendo Direct last week, and get bank to our objectively scientific character ranking.
We're back.
SPEAKER_05Oh my God, welcome. Bro's like, I can be quiet, sniff loudly.
SPEAKER_01I didn't think it would pick it up.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we're back. We're back.
SPEAKER_05Uh welcome. You're you're listening to the Infinite Scale podcast. Um, I'm your host, William Chandler, joined as always by Chris Crossley and uh Christopher Merced. I just realized I'm still sharing my fucking screen on Discord. Yeah, that's true. Let's I'm gonna switch it. I'm gonna switch it over. Boom. That's a little peek behind the curtain. For those of you hearing this um uh right now uh on audio form, you could be watching it in video form for the first for the first time we've chosen to um I was gonna say remove the mask, but that has a bad connotation these days. I'm not going mask off about anything, but uh I am uh I am willing to associate my face with the horrible shit that we uh say here, the bad opinions that I have. When people see me in the street, they can gut me like a fish about how I feel about I don't know, Pokemon or fucking Nintendo games or something.
SPEAKER_00Um now everyone knows our host is famous, and people are gonna stop Oscar Isaac on the street and be like, I heard your video game podcast.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Oh, yeah, they're gonna get you two confused with each other. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_05That's true. They're gonna be like, Oscar Isaac, you talk about video games, and he's gonna be like, What? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, what the fuck is a video game? Um we're back. We we are here. Uh hopefully the the the program feed looks good. Uh everything looks good. Um you can see we have a topic list there. I forgot to set up the thing that shows what we're talking about at the moment. So um we'll just that's okay. That's for next time. Listen, yeah, constant improvement. That's what we strive here, uh, strive for here at the Infinite Scale podcast. Um video games. Some some believe that they are the work of the devil. Uh I am one of those people. Um I'm here to bring awareness uh to which ones you should avoid.
SPEAKER_04Um atomfall. Avoid.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's too good. It's it's it's definitely the work of the devil. It's it's it's like meth. Um you you try it one time and uh it ruins your whole life. Yeah, you're you're just you're sucked in. Um I've spent the last I don't know what two days, three days playing pretty much just Adam Fall. You you guys haven't played it at all. Is there any interest? Are you are you like just not it's not your thing?
SPEAKER_02I have s I have some interest. I'm not gonna lie. After watching you play it, I might not play it. But not because it looked bad. I'm just like, oh, I I I get some cool mechanics that I saw that I didn't really ask um ask about. But uh yeah, I mean it seems it definitely seems like a cool game.
SPEAKER_04I think if oops, I guess that doesn't really work when I'm doing this for specific things.
SPEAKER_05Um this is uh I've got some footage up from an Adam Fall review, um, a reviewer I like Mortismal Gaming. Um, he only reviews games when he gets to 100%. So just to kind of show some uh it's kind of funny that he's showing this portion of the game because uh I was just playing this before we started recording. Um I I think I understand where where you're coming from, Merced. I think um a lot of what Adam Fall uh relies on to be interesting is in the early stages when you have no idea what's going on, and everything seems like it could be um a mystery, you know, like something that to be uncovered. Uh I think you guys heard me last night playing a bit where I got um a little bit dis disenchanted, I guess, with with the structure of the game, where I was like, I'm just meandering around looking for one specific thing that I don't know where it is, and I'm starting to lose patience with the the way the game works, the fact that pretty much everything you do um starts to feel kind of similar um at a certain point, but crossly this isn't your type of game at all, right?
SPEAKER_00Uh for me, I think it would come down to I just really need to be in the mood for it, and then it'll it'll be there. I don't know that it's not my kind of thing, it's just yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'd have to I don't know. I just have to have this itch, I think. Um what would you say? I feel like I've heard you throw around Stalker a lot. Would you say this is like almost like another, like it's stalker adjacent, or is it kind of more similar to something else? I would maybe know, or is it pretty unique?
SPEAKER_05I mean it it it it is unique, actually. It's it's pretty unlike uh a lot of things you might play, but it carries its uniqueness comes through um mostly in the ways that it is similar and different from the stuff that you were mentioning, like Stalker. So Adamfall is essentially just a first-person shooter. Um, it has very light RPG mechanics. There's no leveling up or anything like that. There's no stats, um, no numbers, no character creation, nothing like that. So, in that sense, it's very stalker-like in that most of your upgrades come through gear. Um, so walking through the world, finding things, crafting things, um, upgrading weapons, things like that, finding new and better weapons. Um, but I think the thing that I really came to the conclusion, um, which I guess is why I like it, is it's um it reminds me of Far Cry 2. Um guys, big Far Cry 2 fans.
SPEAKER_02Uh really I really, really enjoyed Far Cry 2 whenever I played it. Uh that was like a long, long, long time ago, but that was back when like things like fire spread was really novel, the whole idea of like having to take take your fucking malaria medication, all that kind of stuff, and yeah, having uh oh yeah, they had like it wasn't like a mercenary mechanic, right? But it was like a friend mechanic that you had.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like bring people with you and shit like that and interact with them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but so if you think about the structure of Far Cry 2, it was really like you have some friendly zones, basically like two or three at most. Most of the world was hostile to you. The the crux of that game was kind of just going out into the environment, finding um things to because the world was like kind of simulated. Um, so there was constantly stuff happening, characters, groups of groups of enemies moving around through the environments and um uh on patrol, they had different zones that belonged to different factions and things like that. Um, and you know, most of your engagement with that game was okay, you start out, all of your weapons are rusty and shitty, and you have you know malaria, and you're kind of trying to find ways to to function in that in that environment. So um buying better gear, um, and you know, keeping yourself kind of your head above water in terms of like uh the the medications that you need and stuff like that. It's really like very similar to that. There's not like a malaria mechanic in this, but there is a lot of like zones that have different types of status effects that you need that basically the only way you'd be able to function is if you craft um or find specific resistance tonics and things like that. So kind of like the malaria thing. And to do that, you need to go out into the world and either trade for them or um craft them by finding crafting recipes, things like that. Um it's I just like it. I I have a good time playing it. Um I started out and was like very I was very interested in it, I was pretty vocal before on the show about how interested in it I was, and I'm glad to see that it's a lot of what I thought it would be and different in a lot of ways. They really do lean into the no uh quest markers thing really well, I think. Um, you really do need to read the notes, pay attention to what people are talking about, not just follow like the marker to the next um objective. And I think that really only works because of the way that they've designed the world to be relatively small um but dense. And um, you know, it's broken up basically into like I guess four major zones, and you kind of just um you know progress through those zones by whatever pace you like. There's not really like level scaling or anything like that. In certain zones, there might be things like environmental hazards or or gear that enemies will have that's kind of harder for you to tackle depending on the order that you go in, but but honestly, there's not really anything stopping you from beelining to the end of the game. Like you could knowing what I know now, you could beat this game in like eight hours. Actually, no, I take that back. There is an achievement for beating for like starting and finishing the game in under five hours. So they expect once you know what to do and where to go, and the mystery kind of goes away, they expect that there's like a way you could you could really just blast through this um if you want. And there's there seems to be five or six different endings. I'm not sure yet because I haven't finished the game, but I'm very close. And it seems like based on what I know and the characters I've interacted with, um I'm at a point now where I'm gonna have to make a choice of who to align myself with. And so I it seems like there's like some different endings in there uh based on that. Um lots of branching dialogue trees. Um the way they do that is really smart. You know, like people complain in like Bethesda games where you'll like talk to an NPC, or Bioware games, especially. You'll talk to an NPC, and then it feels like you're interviewing them and they're like weirdly forthcoming about all the information that they know. This game does really smartly, like every character always has things they're holding back, and you kind of have to earn those things out of them over time. So you'll like interact with these characters two or three over the course of two or three different conversations, and then um they will eventually uh open up more and give you more information. So um yeah.
SPEAKER_04I it's cool.
SPEAKER_05It's cool.
SPEAKER_02Adam Falls is good. I like that uh I like that mechanic that you I was watching you play, and you had this thing that you were able to like manipulate other electronic devices, like through like walls and stuff. It was like a radio basically that could interact with uh like locks on doors and shit. I thought that was pretty cool. Seeing that honestly piqued my interest the most. I don't know how far it goes in this direction, but like it just gave me like immediate like prey or like immersive sim vibes whenever I saw that. But yeah, I don't know if I don't know like how much of an immersive sim the game really is. It's just uh one of those things.
SPEAKER_05It's it's immersive sim light for sure, because there's definitely some things you can do. Like you can, it seems like um finding different paths through the environment um is a large part of it. And you know, that's kind of the people who are derogatory about what immersive sims are, that's what they say. They're like, oh, which way do you go? Do you crawl through the vent or do you kick the door down, you know, or whatever. That that kind of shit. Like it's that's that's like the the reductive immersion immersive sim uh meme. But I that that this game is like that. I mean, it it at least brings that forward, and it does have some simulation-y aspects in terms of how you want to deal with enemies. Probably the most interesting version of that, I guess, is that most enemies, unless you're trespassing in their specific base, most enemies don't want to fight you by default. Um, so the very first enemy you come across, they're literally just like, hey man, I don't want any trouble. Like, just stay over there, don't come any closer, stay over there. And you can. Like, you can pretty much every enemy in the game, unless you're in their base, like in the footage that's on screen now, they're in their base. So it says trespassing up at the top. So any enemy that sees you will automatically be hostile. But um, there yeah, I mean there's very little like forced combat in in the open world. Like you can avoid everything. I think early on you're gonna want to engage in a lot of combat just to get in to grip grips with the system, or you may be unfamiliar with how that system works when you start, so you just kind of assume they want to kill you, um, which makes sense because it's a video game. Uh, and there doesn't seem to be any repercussions that I can tell from just killing everyone you see, uh, other than you'd waste a lot of resources that way because ammo is pretty scarce, especially early. Your weapons are not great, so it's really easy to die. I saw a lot of reviewers talking about how hard the game is. Um, hard is the wrong word. It's just it's really good at punishing mistakes. Like if you're unprepared or the first time you run into a new enemy, you underestimate them, they will put you on your app. Pretty much anybody can kill you in like two shots, three shots. But it's the same for how it should be. Totally. I mean, it's cool. It by the way, it's the same for them. I mean, like, you can you can um pretty much put everybody down in two shots, especially I have I use the upgraded revolver a lot. The there's like three tiers of weapon. There's rusty at the which is what you start off with, there's stock, which is like only really slightly less rusty, it still looks like shit. And then there's like pristine, which looks like basically a brand new gun. And you you you know, over the course of the game, you'll kind of be upgrading the weapons. Um and at pristine, the revolver is a one-shot kill anywhere on the body if it's unarmored, which is fucking crazy. Um, very satisfying, honestly. You feel like John Wick. You'll like you'll like walk into a room and there'll be like four guys who want to kill you, and you'll just like immediately like just turn the gun on each one and put them down. It's it's pretty fun. Um, the shooting I think is really satisfying. There is melee combat, which you'll do a lot at the beginning when you don't have any ammo, and I think it kind of sucks. Like most games in first person, it just doesn't feel quite right, and it doesn't really feel like they'll figure it out one day, man. I guess so. I because they start you off with a cricket bat, I was immediately reminded of Zombie U. You remember Zombie U? Yeah, Wii U.
SPEAKER_02Holy shit.
SPEAKER_05Because you start off with a cricket bat in that game, I think. Um that game has better melee combat than this game. So yeah, I believe it. Uh, but yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different tools like a metal detector and stuff you can use. They're showing that right now. Um, I think metal detecting is really satisfying, and it's making me uh interested in being an 80-year-old man and getting into that hobby and just start walking around with a metal detector. Dude, imagine the shit I could find if I started metal detecting in Central Park in New York. Holy shit. Bro, I could probably find like nine murder weapons.
SPEAKER_02You think people just like bury shit out there?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It there's like forest, there's like a forested area out there.
SPEAKER_02I thought that there would be like uh people c constantly like trawling the grounds, you know. I thought you guys had like cops doing that shit.
SPEAKER_05I mean, kind of, but like at night, I mean, people there's there's murders out there. Like people do die in Central Park. Yeah, that's because you're in Central Park at night. So that's what I'm saying. Like, somebody probably buried something out there in the middle of the night. I could go and find.
SPEAKER_02It's just like how long is it gonna stay out there? You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe maybe a guy buried ten thousand dollars in gold doubloons and then immediately perished uh afterwards. Like he was like, let me just hide these gold debloons and then I'll get back to my my regular job in the meantime, and then he got, you know, he got fucking whacked or something. I don't know. So now his gold debloons are just out there.
SPEAKER_02You'll have to be out there every single day then. Someone's gonna go find those within a few days.
SPEAKER_05You think there's a I've never seen anyone metal detecting in Central Park.
SPEAKER_02No, but I feel like that they're the cops would find like turned over soil, right? And then they would be like, Wow, there's definitely gold debloons down there.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I see. We gotta add this to our pension.
SPEAKER_00How often are you even in Central Park? Almost never. Looking for people, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I'm detecting. I'm in Central Park uh probably like once every few months. There's closer parks to me.
SPEAKER_02So see, in my mind, if you bury something in real life, it automatically becomes brown soil with like the grass completely removed. Oh, I see. It's like and it's a little bit more. It's like animal crossing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. The the texture of the chore of the soil is like totally different. It's it's clear that something there's like an X. There's like a mulched entirely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't think so. I I I think if you did a good job, that's not the case. Oh. You know what I mean? Like if you I know doing true, I know trying is like an alien concept to you, but like if you if you really tried to excel, like you could make it look like the ground was like that. You might even untouched. Yeah, you might even put a rock over it. Wouldn't that be fucking crazy?
SPEAKER_02That would be way too obvious.
SPEAKER_05Maybe.
SPEAKER_02A rock? A random rock?
SPEAKER_05I mean, there's rocks everywhere, man. How do who's to say that wasn't already there, you know?
SPEAKER_02If I was if I was looking for something important, the first thing I would do is look underneath every single rock.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_02Why would you look over why would you that there's like grass that looks completely untouched? No, or grass that is completely untouched with a rock on it. Which one are you gonna look underneath first?
SPEAKER_05I mean, neither, because they both look completely untouched, but but the rock is like a one has a rock on it.
SPEAKER_02It's so obvious, it's like the most obvious thing you could possibly do.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I mean, uh listen, man. I I'm I Crossley said he's gonna plant a tree on it. Yeah, a fully grown tree, you're never looking to do it.
SPEAKER_05Would you get your treasure? Later.
SPEAKER_00It's that's I know I know the tree. I'm going under the I know to look under the tree.
SPEAKER_05What if the tree is like obscuring the treasure? Like the roots of the tree. I hope it is. But then you can't get it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's supposed to. That's the whole point.
SPEAKER_05Are you gonna chop the tree down and then dude?
SPEAKER_01Holy shit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, sorry guys.
SPEAKER_02I'm I'm looking for the are trees like irremovable?
SPEAKER_05Clearly not.
SPEAKER_02We can get rid of a tree. We can do that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but you never see somebody digging around a tree. You know what I mean? Like if you want to keep the tree intact that you planted, then you'd have to chop the tree down, and that's just rude. And by the way, everybody's gonna know that you're chopping the tree down.
SPEAKER_02It's my are we is this still gonna be in Central Park? Is that what's happening? Yes. Wait, how does a tree even grow in Central Park without someone noticing?
SPEAKER_05There's fucking trees everywhere. I you've never been to Central Park, dude. There's there's a lot of trees. There's a it it's like a farm. Are there people that go there every single day? Only in there's paths. If you you can stray off the path and get lost in the incredibly suspicious. I'm growing a tree. Yeah. That's what you tell them. Yeah, it's like, hey, I'm planting this tree. I by the way, they might stop you.
SPEAKER_02I think you're there are rules against that. You can't plant shit in fucking Central Park.
SPEAKER_00Well, I can't bury treasure either. I'm trying to do this on the fucking download.
SPEAKER_02It would be so dunzo, dude. They'd see it on the security cameras, they'd find you like Luigi, and then they'd go to your house and they'd be like, Did you plant a tree in Central Park? And then you'd be like, Yes, and they'd be like, Okay, they go remove the tree and find you to bloom.
SPEAKER_00Now that's rude. Removing a freshly planted tree that's gonna grow into a nice, beautiful, that's rude.
SPEAKER_02In the in the weirdly It was against regulation.
SPEAKER_00In the weirdly changed the fact that there's now a freshly growing tree in Central Park that's gonna grow into a beautiful one. Why would you so rude?
SPEAKER_02If you weren't if you weren't rude and inconsiderate in the first place and abided by the rules and the laws and the regulations of the city, then this wouldn't be happening. But we're past that point.
SPEAKER_00Now it's there.
SPEAKER_05I I'm also just gonna say there there aren't really any security cameras in like the heavily forested areas. You you could you could get away with this.
SPEAKER_00Like yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It's possible. So that's Adam Fall. Yeah. Feels good to shoot guys. Uh let's watch this dog food ad.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_05Um I I canceled my YouTube premium because I refuse to I refuse to give Google any money whatsoever. Um what did they do? What did they do to me? Or just like what did they do to you? I just don't like them.
SPEAKER_02I heard they're woke.
SPEAKER_05You heard Google's woke? Is that why is that why the the CEO of Google was at Donald Trump's inauguration?
SPEAKER_02Wait, didn't Google vote for to keep their DEI initiatives?
SPEAKER_05No.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_05No? You're thinking of, I don't know, someone else. I know Apple did. Apple. That's who you're thinking of. Apple's the only major tech company that has so far has not become totally swallowed up by this bullshit. Speaking of woke, Nintendo at it again. Um When will they be stopped? Um yeah, there so there was a Nintendo direct. Um did you guys watch it? No, I'm watching it now. Sick.
SPEAKER_02Uh we got a new Dragon Quest. Are you excited for Dragon Quest? Is that what I think? Do any of us play Dragon Quest?
SPEAKER_05This is this this is Dragon Quest. Yeah, this is Dragon Quest, what, two, three HD? Is that the one?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, two plus three HD, right? So it's two and three. Yes. I'm not gonna lie, there wasn't really much in this Nintendo Direct that I was very excited for, other than that side-scrolling old man game.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That that looked like it was like fully animated, looked pretty cool.
SPEAKER_05I the only Dragon Quest game that I have played a lot of is 11. Oh, this is one and two. Sorry. They already did two and three. They already did two and three HD. This is one and two. Um, and I think the reason they did it in that order is because two and three technically take place before. Oh, really? I think that's true.
SPEAKER_00There's like some. So why are they bundled two and three together and then one and two?
SPEAKER_05I don't I don't fucking know. I think two and three both are prequels to one and two.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're all completely backwards. So you release three, then you do the last half of two, and then then you release the first half of two with one. Oh, that's what they did.
SPEAKER_05No, he's fucking he's lost it.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't fucking know. I haven't played the dragon quest games, bro.
SPEAKER_00I was just doing some reading. Uh yeah. Have y'all watched the Dragon Quest Netflix movie?
SPEAKER_05There's a Dragon Quest Netflix movie?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and so it I want to say it's Dragon Quest III. It goes over, it might be two, I don't know, but it goes over the events of one of those games, two or three. Um, and then at the end, right when like a pivotal story thing happens, you find out that the whole thing has been a VR simulation that someone in the real world has been playing for Dragon Quest III, and that he's like, I don't know, it it it it basically fucking really shatters the mold at the end there, and I was just like, Holy fuck, they were fucking trying something with this. Uh but it's pretty interesting, is the long and short of it.
SPEAKER_05I I'm so unbelievably confused by what you're saying that I I don't even know what to say. I so you're great movie. So you're implying that the film takes place in the real world and that a guy was living in Dragon Quest III through virtual reality?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and he so he basically lives through the whole story of the Protag, which is crazy based off of what happens that he was living through that, and then at the end he and us, the viewer, find out it's a VR game because he can't remember because he's in the game anyway. All right, it's it's pretty fucking wild.
SPEAKER_05Alright, man. I whatever you say. It's good, it's decent. I think I mean this this seems like something that you you like had a fever dream, and this but I I actually I know that's not the case because if you had a fever dream, it would be Kingdom Hearts related for sure. Yeah, true. Um, so the Nintendo Direct. Uh yeah, as as you can tell based on our level of excitement, really not anything uh that that interests me in this. This was on the 27th, so what was that, Thursday or some shit? Uh yeah, Thursday. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um put put that put that shit up with old man, the eternal life of gold man.
SPEAKER_05Buddy, I don't even know what you're fucking talking about. Let's see.
SPEAKER_02Um It was towards the yeah, around here-ish.
SPEAKER_00Maybe Merced had a fever dream. I'm starting to think so.
SPEAKER_02No, it existed.
SPEAKER_05Fantasy Life, Lose Lagoon, King of Meat, The Wandering Village, Star Overdrive, Rhythm Heaven Groove, Pokemon Legends Z to A, Tamagotchi Plaza, Rift of the Necrodancer, Gradius Origins, ah. Eternal Life of Goldman, the one thing that Merced really wants from this. I don't even think I watched this part. I think I was like checked out completely.
SPEAKER_00Holy fuck, it's hand drawn. Okay, this actually looks sick. We need more old representation in video games. Holy fuck, dude.
SPEAKER_05You can change your shaft? That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, so for the listeners, not the watchers, this appears to be. Uh-huh. Is this silk song? This appears to be uh Frog Fractions 3, yes. Um, no, yeah, I I don't Silksong is Frog Fractions 3. Yeah, Eternal Life of Goldman, it does look like a Hollow Knight. Like it's got it's got beautiful 2D. Uh the art is sort of by way of like those old Fletcher cartoons, kind of. Yeah, it is. Um, not overly so, but certain enemies definitely give that appearance and um the color almost frame rate of it, I think, too, for the animations as well. Yeah, yeah. And the color scheme of it and things like that. Did that weird smoke lady have huge knockers or what? So I I think this actually looks pretty cool. It's definitely got some yeah, Metroidvania stuff going on.
SPEAKER_00Uh I hope it's not a Switch exclusive. I hope this is just where it is why is getting talked about. Um she was defaulting to 480p this whole fucking time. Um I mean, we'll just play it on FitGirl, but still.
SPEAKER_01It is coming. Bro, come on.
SPEAKER_00It's listed on Steam.
SPEAKER_05You cannot ease it's it's morally not allowed to torrent an indie game. Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I don't know who's making this. I don't want to hear it. I'm I'm the guy that if I enjoy something I torrent it, I buy it. That's fair fact. That is fair. That's the whole thing. There's just too many video games to buy every single one that looks interesting and then be like, okay, I actually didn't like this.
SPEAKER_05Um yeah, but the the the two-hour refund policy on Steam is pretty generous.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh I am really bad about that. I'd rather I'd rather not buy it and then buy it after I know I like it, if that makes sense. I hear you. I'ma still do it. Well with the asterisk of I will definitely buy it after I like it. You know, I don't I have no shame in doing that.
SPEAKER_05Um let's talk about the the the rumors that uh that they will be um uh because the the Nintendo Direct is on the second, right?
SPEAKER_04Um the next one, yeah. Yeah, switch to direct three days.
SPEAKER_00Um two days? Three, three, two, two, three.
SPEAKER_04That's uh the second is Wednesday.
SPEAKER_05So there's rumors that um pre-orders for the Switch 2 will open uh the same day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or they might announce you know, pre-orders go live this time Friday, or I I think they did that for another release of theirs. Uh I can't remember if it was the Switch or something, or maybe one of the other Switch versions, but I feel like I remember them when they announced that they're they also announced when the pre-orders would go live. Maybe I'm thinking of PlayStation. I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I predict soon after this is when people will be able to lock in those buys.
SPEAKER_05When do you think it's coming out? Um rumors say June.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel like the summer, maybe the fall winter, but I think they want it before the holidays so that people know it's available to buy during the holidays. So do they even have any big games coming out?
SPEAKER_05Uh they they I uh that would be announced during this direct, presumably.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I assume we'll hear them Wednesday, and it'll probably be that new Mario Kart. I assume a new 3D Mario.
SPEAKER_02Um and maybe the really another Mario Kart?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's the only game we've seen for the Switch 2 so far, is the new Mario Kart.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was in the remember we talked about the the reveal of that the Switch 2 exists. They had that little bit of footage of Mario Kart there at the end, and everybody acknowledged that wasn't here for the years out. Oh that sucks. Yeah, the the footage of the Mario Kart they show at the end of the Switch 2 reveal is not any current Mario Kart that exists. So that's the base the baseline assumption is this will ship with a new Mario Kart.
SPEAKER_02That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Isn't Mario Kart 8 like their best-selling game? Um yeah, it's really old. It is on the Wii U.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it did come out on the Wii U. Yeah, I kind of forgot not until now that you're saying that, but yes.
SPEAKER_02Um I figured they were just gonna keep releasing Mario Kart 8 forever. Especially since they have like the infinity symbol thing going on.
SPEAKER_00I honestly wouldn't be surprised if whatever this sequel is uh no, they can't do that. No, it'll be new. I don't know. I was gonna say I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow tried to keep it going. Mario Kart 8 Plus Plus. Yeah, but no, they have to do a nine, they have to move forward.
SPEAKER_05It seems different only because like people are theorizing based on the the footage that um the uh like the maps seem semi-open world, so like almost like a burnout paradise type of thing where it's like very open, and then like let's say it's an open world uh z or open zone, and then there's like different courses within. So you would like drive up to start a race during the campaign or something like that.
SPEAKER_00You can like Crash Team Racing had like an open zone where you drive from like race to race and just kind of interact with the map in a different way that's not a menu, or interact with the game in a way that's not a menu.
SPEAKER_05So who knows? Yeah, but bare minimum, we know that there's a new Mario Kart, whether it's a launch title or not, we're not sure. But I mean, that would be probably the best case scenario for Nintendo if they brought uh a new Mario Kart. Like that guarantee-I mean, this thing's gonna sell either way, but at least guarantees that there's people who are you know a large portion of their audience would be interested in a Mario Kart. Like the overlap between a Nintendo Switch 2 buyer and a Mario Kart buyer is extremely high. I happen to fall in the I don't like Mario Kart category because I hate all things that are fun. So um uh I will not be partaking, but I think I'm in the minority there for sure, in terms of people who want to buy a Nintendo Switch 2. Um I think the June release time window seems seems realistic. I think our initial assumption when we saw the reveal was May. But I can't remember, but yeah, something. I I do kind of feel like having a little bit of time for people to pre-order and retailers to get their shit in in in like their ducks in a row before this thing actually releases, because it is gonna be a nightmare. I mean, it's gonna be a PS5 situation all over again, I I anticipate. Or a Nintendo Switch during Animal Crossing. True, or a Nintendo Switch at launch nightmare. I mean, that was that was crazy. I mean, uh the fact that I got one at all was literally just due to the fact that I was willing to almost freeze to death in the Chicago, you know, winter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um I, you know, and maybe this is just my memory. I feel like the Switch original launch, everyone that wanted one got one. I don't know anybody that really wanted a Switch that didn't get one. Um I think it's just because it's a crazy launch, but sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05I was just gonna say, I think it's just because we we know a bunch of sicko's.
SPEAKER_00So but that being said, all those sicko's that wanted a PS5 were not able to get one without paying like scalpers. And maybe that's just you're right, maybe the industry had kind of just moved that direction by then.
SPEAKER_05That's a good point. No, you're you're you're right about that. I mean, I guess I I remember read like being having the switch and remembering that there was like a series of months there where I was like, thank god I got this thing when I did, because I don't remember seeing them wasn't in store, it wasn't like available, people were bitching online, like I can't get one. So, but you're right, it did seem much worse with the PS5 for sure.
SPEAKER_00Um so I don't know. I think it'll be similar though, that it won't be in stores on shelves regularly for a hot minute, probably. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um what else did I have on the topics list here? Metroid Prime 4. Let's jump back into this video really quick.
SPEAKER_00This shit looks so fucking ass.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, why are we watching this?
SPEAKER_05So we finally got some footage of Metroid Prime 4. Everybody was like clamoring for this. Um I'm surprised to hear you so upset, crossly. I mean, we've talked about this a little bit outside of the show. I'm surprised to hear you so upset because I saw this and I'm pretty sure it's it's being developed by Retro Studios again, right? Isn't that the idea? So I thought for sure. I don't actually know. Look it up. But they they did the they did the remaster of Metro Prime 1 and 2 that just came out, did they not?
SPEAKER_01Maybe.
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, they are doing this one.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So to me, I mean it looks like that remaster. I mean, it seems like this the same issue. I thought that that's what people would want.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it it maybe maybe it is maybe this is what people want. This is not what I want. I do not want something that is trying really hard to be what already came before it, and is seemingly doing that like too well. Like it it seems like a carbon copy of a game that came out when I was a fucking child, and like I that hasn't moved forward at all, almost even in graphics. This like is not doing anything for me where I'm just like, oh yeah, fuck yeah, this looks cool. Yeah, I think the fucking overall look and vibes of the other Metroid Primes is way cooler than what I'm seeing here. And then I mean, yeah, I don't know. This isn't like stylistically doing it for me in any way, it's like I don't know. This there there is nothing here that makes me excited, basically. I would rather them do like another 2D Metroid at this point because Dredge seemed to be really fucking cool. Or dread dread Metroid Dread.
SPEAKER_05That game gave me immense anxiety. I couldn't finish it. I got like halfway through and I was like, this this is this is fucking me up. Every single time the alien robots were there, I was like, this is fucked up. Yeah, I can't, I can't handle this. Um yeah, I I prefer 2D every I've always preferred 2D Metroid games, so um yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I just think it's too late. It almost goes to the Kingdom Hearts 3 thing we were kind of talking about now. It's like I don't care anymore. When I cared about this very passionately, I was a kid, and now we're so far removed from that I don't even care anymore about this. So it's just like to see it finally, it's like, oh, this is what they've given us now after all this time. It's just like okay, uh it was like something special when they first did it, and then the sequel is a sequel, I think is fine, and then three, I think they nailed it finally. Three is like I said this all before, but uh I think three is actually great, and it's like the true vision of what Metroid Prime should have been. Uh and this is just like it almost leans into the we're just doing this because yeah, we think it'll sell, like people want it, so we're making a team make it. There's no like, I don't know. Like Nintendo to me, one of the things I really respect about them, even if it's like a game I don't like, or if it looks like it's meant for babies, or it doesn't run as well, there's like a lot of passion and heart put into whatever the fuck their vision is. And most of the time they're kind of doing something unique. I don't see that here at all. This like literally just looks like Like, we made another Metroid Prime. It's slop. Yeah, it looks like fucking slop.
SPEAKER_05I I like actually. I mean, it's funny that you guys feel this way because I always feel this way, but I'm I'm always trying to be a little bit more kind because I understand that it's been like a long time since they've gotten one of these games. So they're kind of I imagine a lot of fans are just like, let's just get a good one. Let's just get a new good one, and then maybe the next one after that would be like something totally different. But I get what you're saying. Yeah, I mean, to me, Nintendo, Nintendo fans, I've said this so many times, I'm saying it again, and this is definitely gonna get me shanked at Central Park when I'm digging up Gold to Bloons. Nintendo fans are Disney adults, but for video games. I mean, they this is all they want is just this shit again. And I mean Slub. I I'm sure it'll be fun on some level for these people and in general. I mean, it'll probably review well, it'll probably be a good game. Finger quotes, but it just yeah, I mean, again, uh this this doesn't appeal to me in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm kind of already and even yeah, yeah, and even going back to Metroid Dread, it's like okay, the last two D Metroid we got was essentially Metroid Fusion, basically, if we're ignoring Other M, which is like the hybrid game that nobody cares about. Um Other M was the Team Ninja game, right? That was uh I think it was Team Ninja. So funny, they dropped the ball so hard. Um but it's like so you go back, and by the way, Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime came out at the same time, same day, way back when, whenever the fuck that was. So now we fast forward to now, and the most recent 2D Metroid did exactly what I'm talking about. They tried new things, they did interesting, different stuff, and it has a lot of heart and soul poured into it. And even though it doesn't look that fucking great, it's still doing cool and interesting shit and looks like a nice. I thought it looked pretty good. Yeah, but it's not like you know, I mean it's still limited, it's a it's a switch game. I mean, when you that that's what I mean, is like uh, but that big it it took its limitations and did something cool with it. This is not doing that. I am not like interested in what I'm seeing just visually. Uh and so I don't know, it sucks. And maybe there's more to it than we're seeing here. This is like a very small tease, yeah. But it's coming this year. I mean, we're here now, like I don't expect much more than what I'm seeing.
SPEAKER_05So, what's weird? Let's let's just zoom out for a second to the full show. So they they said we're not gonna have any Nintendo Switch 2 news. This is just games coming to Nintendo Switch 1. That weirds me out a little bit because we'll talk about this right after this, but it's their game, their new game sharing thing, which I should have read about before we started recording. So here's me just not having a fucking informed opinion. But the um the so to me that says okay, this is a Switch 1 game, it's been in development for a long time, it's intended to target the Switch 1 hardware. Obviously, it'll be playable on Switch 2, right? It'll probably have some enhancements in terms of frame rate, maybe a resolution bump, that kind of thing. But do we think then that that influences the release date for this? Like, are we saying, okay, if this says coming 2025, is this gonna come out before the switch two?
SPEAKER_00I think um, I guess who knows. I I do think that there's a few things left in the switch's pipeline that'll have some overlap with switch to the same thing was true for PS4 and PS5. There was some stuff still in production that came out oh, yeah, like right when PS5 is coming out. Last of Us 2 came out the the what six months before right before, yeah. Same with Ghost of Tsushima, and then I forget what other stuff kind of had some bleed over into the PS5 era, but there was other people.
SPEAKER_05But that's what I'm saying. It came out right before, not after, because it'd be weird if it was after.
SPEAKER_00But there is stuff that came out, that's what I'm saying. I can't remember what they are now, but I think it's like maybe Miles Morales and a few other things where it's like there's a PS4 game of that they didn't go fully all in. It's basically a PS4 game that runs better on PS5, and then now, like what was it, Spider-Man 2? I whatever other Sony games, after some point in time, it's only PS5.
SPEAKER_05But that's what I'm but what I'm saying is they they kind of the messaging around Miles Morales wasn't. I mean, yeah, as you say, I mean, it somewhat accurately is a PS4 game that they brought up to PS5, but also I mean they marketed it as here's a PS5 game.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't like Yeah, and so and so also there's a launch title for PS5 called Demon Souls, and even after that, continued to be games that released on PS4 that were also a PS5 game, and similarly, we will probably get a launch game Mario Kart that is only on the Switch 2, and maybe a Metroid Prime that is on both after that. That's okay. This happens.
SPEAKER_05We're we're agreeing, but the thing I think that is odd about this is they're specifically saying through this presentation, this is a Switch 1 game, but there's a chance it could come out after the Switch 2 comes out, which I think is just a bit weird. You know what I mean? Like, what is the chance that this game comes out in May before the Switch 2 comes out in June? So then maybe really the Switch 2 doesn't come out until December, honestly, and this game comes out sometime between now and then. Guess it's possible. It's just weird. The messaging doesn't really line up to me.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's definitely see what you're trying to highlight, which is that basically there will be some confusion for somebody upon these two consoles existing and these two different types of games coming out. One's exclusive, one's not. Which one am I able to get if I still have a Switch one? Like there will definitely be some confusion there, especially for like any of the grandmas buying Christmas presents and shit. But yeah, you know, that's not gonna be us. We might have to look it up real quick for some because we don't give a fuck about Switch that much. But other than that, it's like this happens every new console. Like it's nothing.
SPEAKER_05Yes, but let's use the Miles Morales example specifically. That game came out. There were two well, it wasn't a disc game, but there were two skews. It was PS4 and PS5.
SPEAKER_00Assuming that won't be the case for Nintendo, assuming they do any work for any of their games.
SPEAKER_05No, I think specifically this is a Switch 1 game that will happen to also run on Switch 2. Yeah. So there will be one skew. But what that means is it would just be really strange if the Switch 2 comes out in June and this game comes out in October, and it's a Switch 1 game that also just happens to run on Switch 2. Do you know what I mean? That would be really odd. I mean, I I don't even know why I'm making a big deal of this. It's stupid, but it's just a bit weird. So, really, what it says to me is maybe the Switch 2 is actually further out than everyone wants to think that it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean, there is, I wish I could think of what it was now, but as we're like talking about this and re-remembering, there is a game I play on PS5 that came out after the PS5 that never had a PS5 release. So when I go to play it, like I don't know if you know what I'm talking about, but like under the games on your main thing, it says like PS5 or PS4.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it always says PS4, and it bugs me because I'm in my head, I'm like, there could be a better version of this game one day. Totally playing this fucking shit. But uh yeah, I don't know. I I guess we don't really know what Nintendo's gonna do yet because they've never really done a SQL console before. Uh so it's always a little more black and white with the yeah, you know they've never done backwards compatibility like play GameCube games, but they're oh, you know, Twilight Princess was on both, and it was just two different SKUs. Yeah, so yeah, they could do anything. I don't know. It could be very PS4, PS5, where if you buy Metro Prime 4 and put it into your Switch 2, it just downloads the Switch 2 version that maybe does have a higher resolution uh or is able to do something that the other one, you know, who knows? Yeah, we really don't. We're in the dark here, but I would assume kind of what you're touching on is the truth, which is that this is a Switch 1 game and it's gonna be backwards compatible or forwards compatible or whatever. Yeah, and then it's just the victim of circumstance that this game's been in development for way too fucking long, so it was never gonna be a Switch 2 game.
SPEAKER_05Speaking of, let's talk about the the game sharing thing really quick. Did you guys read about this at all? I I'm hoping because I explain it to me because I kind of get the gist, but I want to make sure I'm not just about to say a bunch of dumb shit that that isn't true. So give me your vision.
SPEAKER_00Do you have like their official rundown in front of you? Uh uh no, I can I can probably I was yeah, I was gonna pull it up just because what I I'm not gonna I'm not super super informed in it. I just kind of was like doing a once over and I was like, oh, that seems fine.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Did anybody download the fucking app, by the way? No, a new app. Yeah, that they ended the direct, they announced that they have an app out where all they where they would start posting news and stuff. Okay, I'm just gonna have to. Alright, I got it.
SPEAKER_00So Switch players who buy their games physically are used to being able to share those games by simply handing them the cartridge. Now the Nintendo is allowing a similar process with digital switch purchases.
SPEAKER_05Are you are you on the Rs Technica story?
SPEAKER_02I am, yeah. Okay. So apparently, from what I've gathered so far, you are able to quote unquote eject the game as long as you're in a local system with another person. You're able to eject the game from your Switch to the other Switch that is on a local connection with your device. And then you cannot use it on your Switch anymore. They can use it on their Switch for two weeks and then it returns back to your switch.
SPEAKER_05Okay. And it can this and this is true for any people like on your friends list or something like that, or is there a special thing? This seems to be the only thing that's saying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this seems to be the only thing that's required is that you need to be on the same local connection.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so it'll be like a house. At the time when you do the trade, but use, but then they can they have it for 14 days, so they can leave your vicinity and then what it'll okay.
SPEAKER_02It's I mean, it all it's gonna do is it's gonna write a signature onto the device, it's gonna have an expiration date. When that expiration date gets hit, it deletes off of that. Similarly, on your local uh on the device that it originally came from, it's gonna say an expiration date. This game cannot be used until this date. Once that date gets hit, it goes away.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and you'll have to be in the same Nintendo family account.
SPEAKER_02Um, the same Nintendo family account? I don't know. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00You can always note who your family group members are, regardless of where y'all are. Oh, is that true?
SPEAKER_02That seems to be that seems to be another thing. So the other part of virtual game cards involves loading up between members of families feature looks like it works the same as far as local locally transferring the digital game card file, but the game can only be borrowed for two weeks after that the file will be returned. Uh uh. Yeah, it seems it seems like uh that's really strong. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But I think you've actually for family accounts, you've actually already been able to do that. This is kind of a nerf on family accounts because I think family accounts could share games. Like my my understanding was family accounts before actually were able to play the same game at the same time. Now you can't do that. You're you're you're actually nerfing it.
SPEAKER_00Um uh which is crazy. I guess I'm not sure if you're right or wrong about that. I definitely know game sharing exists on the Switch in a similar way to PlayStation, but it's not anything related to being on a family account together because I've done it before and it wasn't with a family account being involved. Um, so the game sharing thing I think is more similar to PlayStation. It's if you have your account on someone else's switch and they have their account on your switch, y'all can just switch who is active at the time, download stuff that they've bought with their account, switch back to your account and then play it because their account's still on your switch. But this is an actual like, okay, someone on the family playing with me bought Splatoon 2, they're gonna let me borrow it.
SPEAKER_05It does seem like at the very least, though, even for family members, you will have to have it been on the same network at some point. Oh, really? It does seem like that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it looks like for for either either way that you intend to do it, you need to be on a local connection to establish the the relationship between the two switches.
SPEAKER_05Other than that, but maybe once maybe once the relationship is established, the first initial time from then on, family members could could exchange games from a distance, maybe.
SPEAKER_02That's how that's how it's written that's how it's written out.
SPEAKER_05Because if not, then what would be the point in having a family at this point? Because you can trade games with anybody uh if you're local. So it doesn't really make sense to me.
SPEAKER_02But um that that is that is exactly how it's written out. You just need to be on a local connection for the initial like relationship, I guess, to be established, and then after that, then you just need an internet connection. That's it.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I like the idea. I like the idea, but also leave it up to Nintendo to make a simple concept overcomplicated as well, you know? Like they it sounds relatively straightforward at this at this moment, but I don't know. I mean what are they?
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't know until I uh like would actually interact with the system. Because to me this just seems incredibly similar.
SPEAKER_05When does this when does this happen?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Did they did they announce no they didn't?
SPEAKER_04I don't think. Unless you guys are seeing it somewhere.
SPEAKER_05Also, this kind of does feel designed in a way that um it does mean that there will be different versions of games on Switch 1 and 2. You think? Or no?
SPEAKER_00Like, I mean, I I I don't necessarily think we'll see too much of that only because they made it so explicitly clear for the Switch 2 release that Switch 2 games were gonna be their own thing, and that makes me think that they were smart enough to know they don't want to be caught in that gray area too much. They want the Switch 2 game development to have been started already, sure, and they're gonna start pumping out new stuff with a newer level of quality that the Switch 1 can't do.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there's only gonna be a few things like Metroid Prime 4 that have been started a long time ago and kind of lagged in development that are coming out at the tail end. I don't think we'll see very much of that, to be honest, because Nintendo is very planned out, you know. It's I I think they were gonna do this when they are ready to move forward.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, very interesting. Um the one I guess the one thing that gives me like so the way they're talking about it, it's like, okay, we've converted every digital game in your account to a digital game card. Right? Right. To me, that says it's a solve for what if someone has the Switch 2 and the Switch 1 version of a game. Now they're at least different cards, as opposed to our account system totally being fucked up in a way that means you wouldn't have been able to have bought the same game twice. Does that make sense? It's kind of weird, but it feels like an easy back-end way for them to set up for that as well.
SPEAKER_00Um they're gonna do go ahead.
SPEAKER_05Sorry.
SPEAKER_00New versions of the games. I just don't see how you don't just have that as its own listing. So I don't particularly, yeah, maybe. Yeah, I don't see how that's the thing. Uh yeah, yeah, I don't know. Um time will tell. I I could see them doing, and maybe it's in relation to this in some capacity. I could see them doing stuff like Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe that's now on Switch 2, and it's its own version. But then again, that would in theory be its own listing on the shop and in their system and stuff like that. So I don't know what sure, yeah. I don't I don't know the true purpose of this, other than maybe they just know there's a lot of families that buy this console and then also maybe get a second console.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's just another way to you're limited to it sounds like two other consoles as well. So I don't know. Yeah, this fantasy life game looks interesting, but it right like even in the trailer, the frame rate is dropping, so it's like what the fuck? Um goddamn switch one. Um okay. I think we can move on to the list. Yeah. Um Crossly, you know. Uh-huh. Do me a favor. I I'm gonna let you be the the the holder of the list, the controller of the list. Yeah, I've got it. Yeah, I've already got it ready. Bring up bring up the list and and stream it, and I'll I'll watch it.
SPEAKER_04And that that'll be the stream the list. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh god. I just opened Steam. I didn't mean to do that. Steam the list. I'm steaming it. Um how do I stream the list? I don't know. I do it on Discord. Okay, just screen share that then. This is my it's my private place. Oh no, I can stream it.
SPEAKER_05I can stream it. I mean, if there's not a way, then send it to me and I can. No, no, no, I can stream it. I can stream it. Okay, okay. Because I I mean I could I could put it in a Google Doc or something and do it that way if I had to.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to uh hide you guys, whatever. Fuck it. Um so I'm streaming my screen.
SPEAKER_05If you turn on streamer mode, it hides the it hides the private information. If you recall from your days as a as a storied Twitch streamer. As a successful Twitch streamer.
SPEAKER_00Oh god, how do I just hide this, dude?
SPEAKER_05Tell me when and I'll click the you're good.
SPEAKER_04You can't do it.
SPEAKER_00This is I mean, this is my Discord list. Can y'all see it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna stop I'm gonna stop my stream now.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Alright, so um I don't know about you guys. I grabbed a few that uh Deep Paul or maybe even someone else had posted in the chat. I just grabbed a few of those that I thought I would want to add. Sure. And then I don't know if y'all had stuff in mind, but we can just do whatever y'all want to do, basically. Okay. Sure. Uh actually, you know what? Before that, uh-huh, is there anything on the list currently? Do y'all have it in front of you? Are y'all able to see it clearly?
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Uh, is there anything we want to move around? Because, you know, now we have Merced, a whole other brain in uh in the mix. And you know, it does feel weird to have maybe Ratchet from Ratchet and Clank above the Wanderer. You know, just upon review, it's like uh I could see the argument go either way, but I don't know what we were thinking at the time. No, I'm not sure. Even above Liara is like kind of crazy for me as a huge Mass Effect fuck. And it being me and you and not Merced here, I don't know how the fuck we put Ratchet above Liara, but you know, at least he's under Kratos.
SPEAKER_04I was resizing my window and it fucked everything up.
SPEAKER_05Um if I do this, does it work?
SPEAKER_04Kind of. We're just gonna have to deal with it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um I think that the wanderer obviously goes all the way up until you get to like Arthur Morgan.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, I can see him going above the outsider. That's uh Whoa, now hold on here. The outsider is the guy from Dishonored, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we should probably put in parentheses the game that certain ones are from, whenever I mean we don't have to do it right now, but you know what I mean. That's what we're here for.
SPEAKER_00Um Does Dishonored have a U? No, it doesn't. It doesn't.
SPEAKER_04I should have uh I should have been smarter about this. If I full screen it, what does that look like? I wonder. It probably just crops it.
SPEAKER_05You know you live and you learn, as they say. Um we'll see what it looks like when when we go back to look at it. Okay.
SPEAKER_04I like your Discord UI. It looks nice. It's nitro. Well, I ain't paying. What's different? I don't know. Okay.
SPEAKER_02I don't know idea. It just looks different. It has a it's got like a gradient effect in the background and the main the main area is like translucent and yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_05I've had it so long, I didn't know. Um okay, just for the sake of people who are listening, we'll we'll have to read it anyway. And you'll have to read it to me because for me to keep it in frame in the video, I can't screen, I can't maximize the the stream, so I can't even read it either.
SPEAKER_00Um do you have it on hand in case you do need to look at it though?
SPEAKER_05Uh uh I could open it, I could open uh yeah, that's a good point. I could open Discord and make it happen.
SPEAKER_00Uh anyway, I'm looking at it. Uh currently, going top to bottom, one through 27, we've got solid snake from Metal Gear Solid. And I don't remember if we hashed it out at the time, if this encapsulates all different versions of Snake or if it is specifically like where where and where is this for you, by the way? Just out of curiosity, where are you looking at this? This is my own private channel that I post things in for my own uses.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay. Yeah, I was gonna say you could just add me to it and then uh I would see the edits in real time.
SPEAKER_00Never add anyone to this channel.
SPEAKER_05Cool.
SPEAKER_00If you want me to edit it somewhere we can both look at it, that's fine. Yeah, we'll have to do that next time. But I mean I can post it in our DM right now.
SPEAKER_04Okay, all right, sure.
SPEAKER_00For the uh chat. We'll start here.
SPEAKER_04All right, okay.
SPEAKER_00Um okay, and then so yeah, number one on the list, Solid Snake. Then we got Geralt from the Witcher series. It's Geralt. We got it's Geralt, uh G, as in Geralt. God damn it. Then we got Daddy Joel from The Last of Us, Arthur Morgan from You Already Know, The Outsider from Dishonored, Atlas from Rosh. Yeah, Patches from the Fromsoft games, Orin from Final Fantasy X, Andrew Ryan, Captain Price, Kratos, Ratchet from Ratchet Clank, Liara, The Wanderer from that one gamer said likes, uh, Big Hat Logan, Beautiful Joe, Amaterasu, Link, uh Squall Leon, or Leon Squall, depending on who you are and when you discover that character, Bay Aneta, uh Red from Pokemon, Kite from Dothat, Kirby, KK Slider, Yoshimitsu, Cade Six, and Draven.
SPEAKER_02Most people probably don't know that the Wanderer is the character from Shadow Closs' because they never say his name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00But those who know, they know. Um I think we moved the wanderer up.
SPEAKER_05Okay, sure. I think the wanderer could go up. I'd put him just below the outsider.
SPEAKER_02Just below. Why do you like the outsider so much?
SPEAKER_05He is pretty cool. I think he is uh th one of the most fascinating, like characters in Dishonored. One and two, and Death of the Outsider. And I think um he he's like the linchpin of why that whole universe uh functions. I I think like when they were writing that, they must have started with him as a concept. I mean, I can't see how you know what I mean, like just having like such a weird god figure in your fiction. I feel like it just makes it so so interesting. I don't know. I like it. You disagree? Alright.
SPEAKER_02I just think he's like a character. But I mean it's not like Wanderer has like a whole lot of personality, you know.
SPEAKER_05No, you just like the game.
SPEAKER_00That's why we put him so low, but I'll Well the character has an arc and goes through a whole different experience and there's a lot that I could say about that, right? Yeah, it's yeah.
SPEAKER_02He just doesn't talk as a thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00Um any other edits, or is that enough for now?
SPEAKER_02Uh where we like we're so we're only gonna edit the list as is, and then we're looking at we'll add adding characters in. Yeah. Okay. So before we start adding D1. You think so?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Alright. I I'm fine with that. Yeah. They're roughly the same tier for me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would agree. The the shit tier.
SPEAKER_02Why are they even on the fucking list in the first time?
SPEAKER_05Nobody fucking nominated them. Talk to Josh. What what happens is Josh. What happened? Poor Josh, dude. What happens is uh Crossley was just receiving nominations from people, and then he would just propose them and we would rank them. So at some point the list is gonna become so unmanageable because we're gonna have hundreds of characters on it and and it's gonna be a fucking nightmare.
SPEAKER_00But um we could probably cap at 50 and then just start pushing things off the bottom.
SPEAKER_05Let's do a hundred. I think a hundred is a good round number, but yeah, as a big number, but we can do that. I think it's I think it's cool. Top 100 characters of all time. All right, yeah, as decided by science.
SPEAKER_02Actually, I think Link is ass. I think you can move Link like basically all the way to the bottom. I I think he's you don't think he's iconic? He's iconic, but he's not like a he has no personality, he's not like a real character. This this considers all even entirely a self-insert.
SPEAKER_00This considers all aspects though, whether it's like their impact on you know pop culture, their design, everything, not just like how much of a character is it in terms of how it's written. Like it's it's everything.
SPEAKER_02I'd be willing, I'd be willing to vote for Pac-Man, put Pac-Man at number one.
SPEAKER_00Well, he's Pac-Man's not better than Solid Snake, and actually good character. And that's why Link also isn't at the top.
SPEAKER_02Link is not a good character.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you want Link to go below what speak.
SPEAKER_02You can put Link below cade six.
SPEAKER_00No, oh shit. Do not put below your case. Do not put Link below cade six. Yeah, now that I don't agree with link put link, put link like above red. Oh, really? Link red? No, I like red way more than link.
SPEAKER_02Well, we already had him above red. Holy shit, dude. Red should be higher in the first place.
SPEAKER_00And I already told you I don't know what crack we were smoking when we made this.
SPEAKER_05So I mean actually, I think the list overall is not bad. Okay, fine. Move move Link. I'm serious. Move Link down below Kirby. I haven't looked at it too hard. Move Link down below Kirby. That's fine. I like I like Link more than I I would say more than red, kite, and Kirby.
SPEAKER_00But wow, that's a crazy thing to think. Is it you're insane?
SPEAKER_03Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_00I think clearly I was too when we made this.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah, whatever, man.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I think we need to. I definitely think this argument could be made, but if we think we might as well just start throwing the other characters in.
SPEAKER_02I feel like it would make this like 10 times easier. I'm not even gonna lie.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because if we're gonna shuffle them around right now and then we add characters in later, we're gonna have to reshuffle everything.
SPEAKER_05I don't think so, not necessarily. Because if we're it doesn't matter which order you do it in, the result is the same. You're shuffling it, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02So I guess.
SPEAKER_05Um and yeah, uh, we're just doing this because we're only reshuffling really because we've we it's been like two years since we looked at this fucking list.
SPEAKER_00Um, all right. Who has an ad.
SPEAKER_05I I think you're you're the keeper of the list, so you you uh you say what nominations you're bringing in. Alright, Jack and Daxter. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Are they do we add them in as like one character? That's part of the question because we need to do it for Ratchet and Clay. I don't think we should, no. I think they're different. How do we feel? Because for me it's like probably really close to Ratchet, maybe under Liara for me.
SPEAKER_02Personally. Uh well you were saying that you were saying that we're gonna like take into account like how iconic they were, I guess what like games industry impact. Is that what we're thinking?
SPEAKER_00Everything, yeah. Everything that could factor into why they would be a higher number on this list.
SPEAKER_05By the way, I changed my mind. So like I'll I'll nominate the characters for you this time so you don't have to keep clicking back and forth.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's fine. I don't mind. It okay, okay. It takes two seconds. But either way, yeah, you can nominate stuff too, obviously.
SPEAKER_02So I guess we're we're talking about like the quality of the games as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, everything. It can be a factor, yeah. If you know it's like memory, every Jack and Daxter game is a stinker that might affect my opinion negatively, but remember that's I don't think that's the case.
SPEAKER_05This is science, and like all good sciences, they're entirely vibes-based. So I I just you take into account whatever you want, man. Like, honestly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, any factors are valid.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So note to future me, by the way. I'm gonna change my capture settings to not capture my cursor because it's been all over this fucking screen. Um I think Jack goes. I'm gonna say Jack goes above Ratchet for sure at least.
SPEAKER_00Damn it. Well, he's definitely not going above Kratos. I can I can survive above Ratchet. I just liked Ratchet and Clank more.
SPEAKER_05Actually, I'm gonna change everything that I just said and say, let's put him actually I like the game more, the first game, uh, more than most of the Ratchet games, but I actually do think that there's like a couple of Ratchet games that I think I prefer the character of Ratchet in over the character of Jack. And I think the direction that they take Jack's character over the course of the three games is just kind of it it shows some promise, uh, and I think it wraps up well by three, but in two when he's like really emo, I think it's kind of lame. So let's put him right below Edge Lord Jack. Let's let's put him right below uh Big Hat Logan.
SPEAKER_02He was literally tortured by Praxis for like 10 years.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_02So he's a little so he's a little upset in Jack 2, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't play uh those games, but it always seemed like Jack was a really cool fucking character.
SPEAKER_02Like just he is a cool character, he's very cool.
SPEAKER_00Whatever he was going through, it seemed so badass, and I was always like, damn, I want to play these games, but I never did. I yeah, she just seems like comic relief. I feel like he's he's got a personality, but I don't feel like he goes through like any arcs or anything.
SPEAKER_02I well, the thing is I I played up until what I guess up your arsenal, and maybe like one or two after that. And there, yeah, as far as like him being upset about being the last living Lombax and all that kind of stuff, there's not really all that much about him or his character or anything like that. Literally, yeah. So, like there's nothing that actively happens to him in order to develop any of the personal grievances that he has with himself or with the world. Yeah, like whereas like Jack is holistically his character evolves and develops based on the shit that ends up happening to him and the things that he learns about through his journeys in the world. So plus also the world for Jack and Daxter is cooler than that. I think I think I want him.
SPEAKER_00I think I want him above Ratchet.
SPEAKER_05I think the the arc of Ratchet and Clank together as friends, the way Ratchet interacts with the world over the course of that first game is really, really good. And then it just so happens that they kind of make it shit over all the other games. Okay, but yeah. But I mean and also I mean I I do think that first game is is is really funny, and Ratchet is a part of that. They're all very funny, yeah. So they're good games. Um I think new Ratchet is really probably new Ratchet is really the only reason why I moved him this far down when we were first making this list, is because I think the the what they made Ratchet into in like the movie and the new Ratchet and Clank games is like really generic and and less of a less of a character. So okay, sure. We could put Jack right above Ratchet, that's fine. And they'll be right next to each other, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I could see it either way, really. So um that's I just liked I liked I honestly like the Jack and Daxter games more than I ever like the Ratchet and Clank games, but I like both, so it's like Yeah, I think they're they're similar for me.
SPEAKER_05I like that first Jack and Daxter game a whole hell of a lot, but in that game, Jack's not really even a character, so no, he doesn't even say anything, he doesn't say anything until the second game. Yeah, yeah, correct. Yeah, true. So uh it's kind of funny that my favorite Jack and Daxter game is the one where he's not even really in. He doesn't talk. Yeah. So yeah, but I get what you're saying. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot, hey, there's a lot of personality in fucking Naughty Dog's animation style and everything. You get to see a lot of his emotion, and like, yeah. Yeah, it's not like he's like uh not it's not like he doesn't have opinions. He has opinions, you can see him on his face, he just doesn't say anything for the whole game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, okay. Did you have an omination channel?
SPEAKER_05No, you go ahead.
SPEAKER_06Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh GLaDOS from Portal 1 and 2.
SPEAKER_02I mean GLaDOS is I think millennial core iconic. I think she has to be I think she is iconic, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it's like top tier.
SPEAKER_02I would put her above patches and then shake it out from there.
SPEAKER_00I feel that above patches is a solid start for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Damn. Atlas, you're not being Atlas for me, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's tough. I I it's tough. I can see the argument, but we've all played Bioshock, so I don't see how any of us could feel that way. But if someone here hadn't played Bioshock, okay, sure.
SPEAKER_05GLaDOS is so cool, just viewed removed from the meme, because obviously the meme is like total poison. Removed from the meme, GLaDOS is really cool in terms of the developments of that character between Portal 1 and 2. And like even just between those games, and then by the end of Portal 2, what GLaDOS becomes is like really, really interesting.
SPEAKER_00So fucking good. Yeah, so yeah, even if there was no Portal 2, I would say GLaDOS is like a character I would never forget, has genuine laughs on my first experience of Portal, and is just forever in my memory. And then Portal 2 just adds so much more to that, and yeah, like you said, where it ends and stuff, and Potato Gladys and all that is just so if there's if there's no portal two, she's like bayonetta area, like number 20-ish on the code.
SPEAKER_02Damn, you think so? It's interesting. So fucking hilarious.
SPEAKER_05With portal two, she becomes like yeah, top 10 somewhere for me.
SPEAKER_00Because without GLaDOS, Portal 1 is just a physics um, and with GLaDOS, it's so much more like that's pretty true.
SPEAKER_02Coupled with the environmental storytelling, yeah. Because remember, you get to find like the little cubby holes where the other uh test subjects have like scrawled on the walls and shit like that. Yeah, that shit's cool.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Would you guys say right right where? Uh below I said right below Atlas above patches.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's solid.
SPEAKER_05Fuck, I like patches a lot. But okay, yeah, that's I I agree. I agree though. Palad patches is honestly really high up.
SPEAKER_02Patches is so high up because I think patches is very high up for a good for good reason. The first thing I noticed looking at this list, I was like, why?
SPEAKER_05Patches is so based. That's why.
SPEAKER_02You put him, you put patches up above Andrew Ryan, yeah, which is insane.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Patches as a as a villain.
SPEAKER_02I would put Andrew Ryan above Atlas.
SPEAKER_05Patches as a villain has a lot more going on than Andrew Ryan. I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest. I think hold on.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I don't know the lore.
SPEAKER_00I remember Chandler talking me down for Andrew Ryan, and I wanted Andrew higher, at least next to Atlas. And his argument was that we get one moment with Andrew Ryan, basically, but we get the whole game with Atlas, and that that was why Atlas went higher. But I feel like the one moment with Andrew Ryan fucking hits a lot harder than borderline any moment with Atlas in the whole game. Uh so it's like that's it's Andrew Ryan's impact on the world of Bioshock is undeniable.
SPEAKER_02So it's like that's what I was basically going to say is it's an interesting game because it's like while we do have a lot of moments with Atlas directly talking to us, like we everything we know about Frank Fontaine and Andrew Ryan, like uh like yeah, you learn so much about their personalities and their characters without directly interacting with them just from all the tapes that you end up picking up and learning about like how all the citizens feel and interact with these characters at the same time. But I mean, Bioshock's a fucking jewel. It's like literally one of the greatest games that's ever been fucking made.
SPEAKER_05I so like I just to me, Atlas as a character is what the game is about. Like, it's it's all of the best thing. Everything you love about Andrew Ryan, everything you love about Frank Fontaine, the world of Bioshock is encapsulated in Atlas's character, in my opinion. The reveal of Atlas um at the beginning, there is at the end. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean it's whereas there could easily be a Bioshock without the Andrew Ryan moment. So right, right, right. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_05I I yeah, I guess I just I yeah, I to me it's they're they're in they're in harmony for sure, Atlas and Andrew Ryan, but I like I think the the way Atlas influences the events of Bioshock and how you feel as a player and as a character experiencing them. I just think it's it's undeniable that Atlas is is more interesting, but um I think he's a lot more badass.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I want to move patches down.
SPEAKER_00Patches above Kratos is absurd. We're we're actually absurd for that. Like much less Andrew Ryan.
SPEAKER_02Kratos is fucking uh I will say before we hop off the Bioshock thing, before we hop off the Bioshock thing, I will say I'm okay with the way that it is right now. I personally like Andrew Ryan more just as like I think he's a badass character that he created this fucking underwater empire, like him as this insane libertarian, like freak show of a human being, like managed to make all this work to an extent for a good while and held by his values until the very fucking end. That's just fuck he's pretty fucking cool. I like that.
SPEAKER_05You're literally falling for the trap in the story. You're literally falling for the game, dude. You're by by being into Andrew Ryan, you're like or go into rapture, bro.
SPEAKER_02You no, I'm I'm saying he's entirely a flawed human being, and obviously his philosophy doesn't fucking work, but as a character, to like literally be so fucking into yourself in that way and being like, this is my life philosophy, this is the shit that I want to do when I know it's gonna fucking work, and to see it like basically explode in on itself like in front of him, and then to see him to see it culminate in the very end with him just being like, you know what? Now that you've seen all this shit, just fucking kill me. And he literally tells you to fucking kill him. Like it's I don't know, it's just like because he has nothing else to live for. His whole life philosophy is shattered in front of him. Like, yeah, I don't know. I think he's cool. I think he's really cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like the. Went down with the ship too. He didn't just like peace out.
SPEAKER_02He stayed there the whole fucking time trying to make sure it worked. And yeah. Oh well. And just based off of his own philosophy of this hyper-libertarian-esque like worldview, he allowed it to basically crumble underneath him the entire fucking time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like he's cool. He's a fucking come on. He's a fucking cool character.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love Injure.
SPEAKER_02Um we can move forward.
SPEAKER_05Okay, who are we? So we were placing.
SPEAKER_00I would like to move patches down. Personally, at least below Kratos. Uh but you know.
SPEAKER_05I don't like Kratos that much. I'll I I'll I'm fine with moving patches below Andrew Ryan.
SPEAKER_02You don't like Kratos that much?
SPEAKER_05He's like very fine. I've in fact I think Kratos is just a little high.
SPEAKER_02He's very I I he's one of those like uh I understand he's very Reddit, but I think that his his personality, like his development throughout all the games, even in the first fucking game, actually, is a well-written character. As like as like gore porny as you could possibly get in terms of like personality vibes. I think he's pretty fucking well written. Even if you were to just consult, like just contain him within the first fucking game. Like he makes a deal with the devil, you know, Ares. It's just so generic. It is, but it's still really fucking cool the way they wrote him and everything. Like he loses his fucking family in like a blood rage and shit like that, and he vows to like kill the fucking gods. I think I don't know.
SPEAKER_05That's just I think the only reason like the events that play out over those games are are undeniably badass. I think the only reason Kratos is even on this list is because of the new games.
SPEAKER_00So uh probably is is up this high. Kratos Kratos deserves to be on the list even without the new games. I do think he would be much lower without them, but that's the whole thing, right? Is that what's cool about the character is that he was like Edgelord angst, fucking anger, fucking action-packed, stupid gore, fuck fest game. And now, as we have grown, we get to see that character and how he has grown. And it's like cinema, yeah. And it's like, I don't know what the game is like, honestly, if you didn't grow up with the originals, but I did. So seeing that character in this new way and seeing him have his moments where he like wants to freak the fuck out and then he doesn't, and it's just like just stuff like that, much less everything else, like all the actual writing and all the stuff he actually goes through, but just the little things too. Or he'll like I don't know, just like when he gets like the fucking Chaos Blades again, and just just certain things, I don't know, and he'll like look at a thing and it'll play the music, and you you know just like what Kratos is maybe thinking based off of how he used to be, but now he's here, so you know he looks at a thing and has a music cue and he's not saying anything, but you know, like oh Kratos is thinking about this really unhinged thing he could do, and then he does this instead. I don't know. I I I love new Kratos, I love where they took the character.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think those games are incredibly touching. Yes, I think they do an amazing job whenever it comes to emotional impact, and I'm not even gonna lie, it's probably those games have probably emotionally touched me more than like almost any other game that I've played in the past like 10 years.
SPEAKER_05I would agree a lot more if the second game didn't exist. I like it.
SPEAKER_02Agree that Ragnarok. Yeah, I agree, yes. I yeah, true.
SPEAKER_05I think I think they really they really defanged a lot of the things that felt resonant in the first game. Like it I understand, I mean, the way the first game ended, they they basically already knew they were gonna have another one, so but I do think that the way things proceeded in that second game has soured me on the character, on the world, on a lot of the characters. Um there's some cool stuff, don't get me wrong. I mean, they made some good choices therein, but I think just even the context under which the second game proceeds, I just don't like. I think they could have done more um uh or less. Like somehow both a lot, like too much happens in the second game, and also nothing of real consequence at the same time.
SPEAKER_00It's so interesting. Very weird. I think it's fine. I I definitely exist maybe in the group that like I didn't need Ragnarok both as a video game and as the story and stuff. Like, all I needed was that first God of War. That was yeah, I genuinely believe a masterpiece, especially at the time that it came out. Was like, wow, this is what I want from like a cinematic story action game, like fucking peak.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_00And then the second one is just more of it, and I was happy to see those characters in that story go on, and I was happy to play more of that game too. That being said, a third one is where I sort of finally started in what I think that that pool of thought you're talking about is that like I don't really know that I need more, and I didn't really need it with Ragnarok either, I guess, but I appreciate it and I think it's fine. Like the development from here, you know, I don't know that it's necessary for what I I don't know. I don't know. Like, I I guess I see what you're saying. It just like didn't ruin anything for me, I think is where I'm coming from. Like this, it just seemed additive, it didn't take anything away for me personally. It was only complementary to what the first game offered. It is just more of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00For me, um, but I I totally feel you because I don't really want more after this, so like I think you were just there before me, basically, uh, which is fair.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, based on this conversation, if you guys really want to move patches below Kratos, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00Um I I kinda do. I think I do want patches below Kratos. I love patches and I love the Souls games, and he is like the through line through all of them and a great meme, and I'll never forget him. But in terms of a character, he's not really anything either.
SPEAKER_05I don't know, man. Have you ever stopped to wonder why he is the way No, I'm just kidding. He's basically the Joker. Yeah, you can you can move him below. Yeah, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00So next is Ellie from The Last of Us.
SPEAKER_05Wait, wait, wait, but we were placing somebody before we started on that whole fucking diatribe. We were gonna put somebody right below Atlas. Who was it?
SPEAKER_00We thought about moving Andrew Ryan, I thought, but No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_05There was a character that you proposed that started this whole conversation.
SPEAKER_00We we did GLA GLaDOS already. We got her.
SPEAKER_05Oh, you're not updating the one you that you posted. That's what that was the confusion, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm in our group chat right now, updating it. I see. Yeah. Hold on, I'll post the updated after I get this shit. Or at 31 now, boys. Are we? Okay. Holy shit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Putting putting Ellie in?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'd also debated uh Abby. That's her name, right?
SPEAKER_05No, we're not at 41. The the numbering is fucked up somewhere. 31. There's no 15 or 16. I don't know how.
SPEAKER_00Oh, what?
SPEAKER_05How did I you're gonna have to oh you're gonna have to renumber this at some point. They're there for me. There's no 14 for me. What did I do? 14 is yeah, I don't know what you did. I think it's because you were editing both lists. This is why I was like, I could just nominate if it's easier. Um no, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00I just fucked up.
SPEAKER_05As long as they're in order, as long as they're in the order we agree on. I don't think the numbering really matters at this point. So we're just doing it for me.
SPEAKER_00We could just fix it later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, Ellie from The Last of Us, maybe Abby too. I'm okay with adding one or both. Okay. I don't know which one I want to add more.
SPEAKER_05Let's let's let's not do multiple characters from the same game in the same conversation. All right. So we can at least have some distance, you know what I mean? Let's do Ellie then. We'll do Abby next time. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Um I'm gonna say right below Liara. Okay.
SPEAKER_00It's so far from Joel.
SPEAKER_02You don't like Ellie, huh? I like Ellie. I don't think she has I I I don't think that she has as much depth as Joel the character has. But it also, like, it probably has a lot to do with me being able to empathize with Joel, and I can't really empathize all that much with Ellie throughout her entire journey.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I think Ellie, Ellie's a really good character. She has, to me, about as much depth as Joel, but her depth comes from Joel. If that makes sense. Like, her relationship with Joel is such a driving aspect of the yeah, the narrative. So to me, I mean, this is kind of a meme. Really, if we were doing this like on an object a true objective measurement, they'd probably be right next to each other in the list.
SPEAKER_00I don't think so, honestly. I would never have them as high as or have her as high as Joel for me personally.
SPEAKER_05I think uh I mean we could be like really like we could analyze why that is, like in a lot of ways. Like, why does Merced empathize more with Joel than with Ellie? On the the one hand, it's because Joel is like uh daddy Joel. I mean, we we we're men, we kind of uh you know.
SPEAKER_00I can envision the pain, brother. I know.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, on a basic like unga boonga sense, it yeah, okay, it makes sense that we identify more with the male character of the two. I think if you if you really drive through that whole line of thinking, they are not that different as characters. Like the the thing that the thing that The Last of Us Two is trying to say is you know, by making the choices, by making the choices that Joel made, he has created another version of himself in Ellie, who is who is continuing forward. It's like an it's like a it's like a clone, you know, whatever, not really, but it's like a clone of Joel. It's all of Joel's worst impulses planted into a person who had the the the chance and the desire to be different. That's that's what makes Ellie interesting, and in that sense, I think Ellie is just as good of a character as Joel, period. I mean, frankly, like that that arc is just as satisfying, is just as meaningful, just as resonant to any of us as Joel's arc. I mean, we don't have kids, you know, so on some level.
SPEAKER_00Well, even without that though, you do have loved ones and you understand, like, and at the point that it happens in two, Joel is a character you care about. And regardless if you care about Ellie or not, more than likely what I just said is true, that you do care about Joel, even if you know his flaws and don't necessarily agree with everything he's done. By the time, by the time, by the time the game takes him away from you, you're like, Oh, I'm gonna kill this fucking bitch. Like, uh, and that's how you feel, and they do that so well. And then by the time you get to the end, at least for me, I'm like, fuck, I don't want her to kill Abby. Like, and the moment is definitely there, like she absolutely could, and how they handle all of that is like so so so so good. But all at at the end of the day, I guess it does kind of stem from Joel in some capacity. I mean, it could have been someone else that Abby kills, but it's not, like, that's not the story they're told.
SPEAKER_05It's you know based on everything you said, I I agree. But if you like your first statement, if you play The Last of Us one and two, and you care about Joel and you don't like Ellie, you're insane. You're a sociopath. Like it's like nut job behavior. I I would legitimately think that you should have yourself examined if that's the case. Because you're a freak. Like it's it's it's impossible. It's impossible.
SPEAKER_00They're they are linked intrinsically as characters, like they they are I guess I'm just coming from like the position that like maybe I just mean like care more about Joel. Like like even from a story or gameplay perspective, it's like well fuck now now I'm not Joel anymore. Now I have to be, or like, you know, whatever it is, that's what I'm kind of trying to touch on is the like yeah, I don't think anybody dislikes Ellie, maybe, I don't know, but um you you get what I'm saying. Um just the the loss of Joel for any particular reason, like you're probably fucking upset about it. Um regardless of how much you like Ellie, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think we just see them grapple with completely separate emotional conflicts throughout the entirety of both of their games, you know? Like Last of Us Two is like Ellie's game and then Last of Us One is like Joel's game. Um I I I I think like I found the emotions and the things that Joel had to grapple with a lot more complicated and a lot more interesting than Ellie's, which is like uh which is not to like downplay what Ellie went through or how impactful it was emotionally, because like that game is really fucking emotionally provoking, right?
SPEAKER_00But it is essentially a revenge plot.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is, it is a revenge plot. Joel dies and she wants to avenge him. Um and in her naivety, she believes that revenge is something that could possibly close off Joel's uh the the burden of Joel's death in her mind. Yeah, but um or or possibly she doesn't even realize that at all, or is thinking of it like that at all. Whereas like Joel loses his child in the beginning, then we uh of course like we see that and then we move on, and then we're past Joel's grievances with his uh lost daughter, and we're seeing the man that he became after that, and now he has to take care of Ellie, who obviously is gonna have conflicting emotions about carrying with him throughout this entire event that he's only doing as a favor for the Fireflies, and obviously for himself in order to save humanity. And then by the very end, he finds himself able to feel the emotions and emotionally cope with himself yet again, and also at the exact same time make this flawed decision that is incredibly controversial. You could say either way could have been good or bad, right? Um I I just just I don't know. I just think he's like more like he's got he's like a more of an onion than Ellie is, and all the things he goes through is a lot more interesting to me, on top of me being, I think, still at the end of the day at the core, I can empathize with him more. Um just the the idea of like the shit that he goes through and how he he copes with it throughout the entire game and seeing him emotionally developed to be open enough by the end as well.
SPEAKER_05I guess I just uh I I think that they are the same. The point of the games is that they're the same. Like, and and it's through the actions that Joel takes in the first game that Ellie becomes like him, and so in the second game she's emulating what Joel would do. That that's the thing that makes that thing powerful is the second game is what would Joel do, you know, and and Ellie's just doing it. Yeah. And that's I think that's that's it makes them to me like if we were really doing this objectively, then they would be next to each other. So that that was really the only reason I even went down that rabbit hole. But I think on some on some level, I am agreeing with you that I like Joel more, but if we interrogate why that is, I think it leads us down, you know, so many like subjective it's like, okay, well, we just identify with him more in weird ways, or we like the first game more.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, and it is possible that I could, because I will be playing The Last of Us Two again. It is possible that while I'm playing through it, I will remember a bunch of scenes or reasonings that Ellie has for the things that she's doing, and I just can't really remember them right now. But at the moment, in my mind, it's just sort of like Joel died, I need to find who fucking killed him, and I'm going to murder the fuck out of this bitch, you know, like and that's all I can really think of. And I can't really think of anything else in terms of her grappling with everything, especially since once you get towards the end of the game, she has the choice to end the conflict entirely, you know, and then she says, No, I'm still gonna go after her. And and she loses her family because of it, right? And like, which is obviously like emotionally powerful, but to me that doesn't really speak all that much to her having an extreme conflict within herself that she's grappling with throughout the game. But like I said, if I play it again, yeah, I could change my mind. And I also agree with you that they're probably pretty close together, if anything. Um, Joel's higher, but yeah, and that's probably close together.
SPEAKER_00So, do y'all like I guess we shouldn't never mind. Um, yeah, it it's tough for me. I definitely think Ellie could exist honestly kind of close to what Chandler said originally, maybe a little higher, but like near Liara, maybe a little higher than that, like above patches.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_05Um, where is it? So uh between between patches and kratos, yeah. I would I would even maybe put Ellie above Kratos, but I know you guys probably don't agree with that, so um I could see it either way.
SPEAKER_00I could see it, but I wouldn't want it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Yeah, the science won't allow it. That's fine.
SPEAKER_00That's fine.
SPEAKER_05Men men win again. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02It's just men, it is, it's man brain. I don't know. I can't because I think of Kratos too, and I'm like, bro, like I feel that shit, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05It's hard to it's hard to circumvent that. We're you're just so reddit-brained, dude.
SPEAKER_02It is, it's it is reddit brain. I'm swaying. Um I I have no I didn't know the Dune had anything to deal with manhood, truly.
SPEAKER_00It's just very Reddit according to you, and that's why you won't watch it. So it's just funny. Oh, yeah, true.
SPEAKER_02It is really reddit. Dune is super reddit. Holy shit. I have I have one, I have one that we could put up.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's do it. Um, Sam Porter Bridges. Nice. I was thinking about him too. Um, all right, bet. So Sam Porter Bridge.
SPEAKER_02How do we feel about him?
SPEAKER_00Pretty good, honestly, but uh I wanna let you say your piece real quick while I go pee.
SPEAKER_02Um, I don't think he's like the greatest character ever in the world or anything like that. Uh, but I do really, really enjoy the way that they they they sort of portray someone who is essentially an insane recluse. Um he doesn't enjoy being touched by other people, blah blah, like all this other kind of stuff. And then, of course, throughout the game, he learns the power of friendship and he has like all these people that he's able to open himself up to and all that kind of stuff. It's a pretty normal story and everything. I like the way that they portray it in a very human sense. They, as in like Kojima, he portrays Sam Porter Bridges as a very human individual, which is interesting in comparison to all the other fucking people that you end up interacting with throughout the entirety of the game. Um so like with with that said, I I probably wouldn't put him up like insanely high, but he should probably be higher than like half of these.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02Like I would I would probably put him like in the Jack and Ratchet area, I would say. Okay.
SPEAKER_05How about right below Liara?
SPEAKER_02Uh bro, I'm not even gonna lie to you. I can't remember who the fuck Liara is.
SPEAKER_05Liara is the the uh Asari, she's the blue girl.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, we can put her yeah, we can put him below her. Yeah. I just think he's a really good character, and I think once all this shakes out, he's still gonna be really high up. Um but he's not like these are insane characters up at the top. Like fucking fucking Snake, fucking Geralt, fucking Joel, Arthur Morgan. I think Arthur Morgan should probably be put up higher, to be honest. Um, yeah, these are all amazing characters, so yeah. I mean, yeah, it's gonna be tough to beat some of this stuff, but I just think it's gonna get so dense, you know what I'm saying? Like that like once you if you put him there, he's probably gonna stay there. He's probably gonna stay in that area. And like if we get to like eight a hundred characters, he'll probably still be in like the top like 20. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05So I think uh okay, we're we've I think we've come to a consensus that we're gonna put uh Sam right below Liara, right above Big Hat Logan.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um for now.
SPEAKER_04Like that we didn't have Big Hat Logan on here. I think um I love Big Hat Logan, dude. What a that's got a big hat.
SPEAKER_02All that being said, I think Death Stranding as just a game is fucking phenomenal. The character is you know, he's not like the most amazing thing in the world.
SPEAKER_00That's what I was gonna ask you if there was another character that you felt was even a better choice that would maybe be higher, but um, maybe Hartman.
SPEAKER_02Hartman's pretty cool. Hartman's the dude who kills himself over and over again in order to investigate the beach, and he's the reason why anyone even knows anything about the beach in the first place. Oh, okay. So you you have to you end up going to uh like this like snowed in fucking hut that's at the top of a mountain. At like towards like three-fourths of the way through the game. And once you finally get in there, it's just like this super like dark room and like open space hut. And you've got like music playing and stuff, and you can't really see all that much. And then uh you you meet a dude who like basically wakes up from being dead, and then he like talks to you and explains everything. He's like, Yeah, every 20 minutes I have to go back to the beach. So he like basically kills himself, and then every 20 minutes cycles around and the defibs go off on his chest and he wakes back up. It's pretty cool. He's a cool character, and he's the only reason that anyone even knows anything about the way that the BTs and the time fall and everything is working. So yeah, he's cool.
SPEAKER_05So is that is that the end, or do we want to do one more?
SPEAKER_00How are y'all feeling? I could add another, but it's okay if we wanna.
SPEAKER_02Well, we could do one more. But uh was there a good one we can think of?
SPEAKER_00How do y'all feel about another Sam? Mr. Fisher.
SPEAKER_02Oh shit. Um he's gotta be like a little fuck. Damn, that's hard. That's tough.
SPEAKER_05I I would put him I would put Sam Fisher above Captain Price and below Andrew Ryan.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say below Captain Price and above Kratos, so I'm down with that. I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_00It works out because I didn't put in 11 whenever I edited this around, so now he goes in number 11.
SPEAKER_05I see 11 on there already. I okay, that works. For mine, there wasn't. I don't know, I don't know what's going on, so we'll we'll leave it. But um I I think I like Sam Fisher. I think he has a lot more, especially if you take over the totality of all of the games, basically barring what was it, Blacklist, which was kind of a do-over. Um I think if you take him as a character over over all the games, he has a much more interesting arc than Captain Price, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_04So that's that's that's me. Fuck yeah.
SPEAKER_05Also, uh the the the actor who gives him his voice, what's his name? Um Michael Ironside? Oh my god, dude. What a fucking voice on that guy. Yeah. And like, I mean, and every time he's in like a movie movie, too, you're I'm just like, I'm so happy you're here. Um he's probably old now.
SPEAKER_00He has to be. We're old now.
SPEAKER_04Man, he's 75 years old. Holy shit. He's so good, Starship Troopers. All right. Um that's it. I think we did it.
SPEAKER_00We totally did it.
SPEAKER_05I think we did it. Um we will be back. Uh we're gonna take a little bit of a break because I will be in Japan and Taiwan for the next two weeks. So um, you know, we'll see probably at the end of April. We'll we'll have another another one of these. We'll figure out our video challenges. I'm not a I'm not a video producer, I'm barely an audio producer at this point. So um there's gonna be some fun learning curves associated with this whole video thing, but um I think we'll get there. I think it was okay. No, we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_02We'll figure it out. I'll I'll see. Uh if I get bored, I'll look into making a script for Python to make the visual shit a little bit better.
SPEAKER_03Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_02I can't say because I can't imagine I cannot imagine yar. I can't imagine um it would be very difficult. So I just need to I just need to know the things to interact with, and once I can do that, then should be pretty simple.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay. Oh.
SPEAKER_02All right.
SPEAKER_05Nice, dude. Well yellow cat, orange cat. We should ask him his opinion on Sam Fisher. Okay. Um appreciate everybody for listening. Uh, the email address. Uh send us send us an email. I put it up on the screen. I always forget to mention it, but we have an email address. It's infinitescale at nerdorgy.com. Um send us an email. I want to hear how much you hate our list. I want to hear your favorite.
SPEAKER_02Was the list on screen? Were they able to see this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, excellent.
SPEAKER_05The list was on screen. I don't know. I'm gonna have to review the footage to see if it's visible or not. Who knows? This might all be a wash, and we have to do the first video episode the next time. I don't know. Um, yeah, we're gonna this is this is a dry run. We'll see what what what came out of it, but we'll based on this experience, we will know next time what to do and what not to do. So um it's all it's all a fun time. Um anyway, that's it. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks uh to Crossley and Merced for being here for this. And um yeah, we'll see you guys next time. Peace.
SPEAKER_04Peace.